That's So Raven-Symoné & Miranda Maday

Episode · 1 year ago

That's So Raven-Symoné & Miranda Maday


In your head, you probably had an idea, or preconceived notation, or who Raven-Symoné was, which is why many of her fans were surprised when she announced her secret wedding to a woman named Miranda Maday. Today, we talk marriage with Raven and Miranda, the reality of being a young queer actor on Disney, their new YouTube channel, and maybe babies.

Be sure to follow Raven and Miranda on IG and follow their YouTube channel, 8 PM! Your host is Levi Chambers, co-founder of Gayety. Follow the show and keep up with the conversation @Pride. Want more great shows from Straw Hut Media? Check out or website at Your producers are Levi Chambers, Maggie Boles, Ryan Tillotson and Edited by Sebastian Alcala Have an interesting LGBTQ+ story to share? We might feature U! Email us at *This podcast is not affiliated with Pride Media. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

STRAWT media. It's two thousand and four. You get off the bus, run home to microwave your hot pocket and plop down on the couch. You grab the remote and turn on the TV when a catchy theme song begins to Echo through your living room, lets you good game. You can hear, can't you? It's amazing how much one person can embody so many childhoods. That person, for me, is Raven Simone, otherwise known as Raven Baxter from her hit Disney show. That's a raven. You may also know her as my personal favorite Paprika from Dr Doolittle, or the outspoken little Olivia on the cosby show. Raven spent most of her childhood creating iconic characters for our viewing pleasure. She coined two s catch phrases like Yep, that's me, Oh and in nasty. In your head you probably had an idea or a preconceived notion of WHO Raven Simone is, which is why many of her fans were surprised when she announced her secret wedding to a woman named Miranda May Day. Today we talked marriage with Raven and Miranda. The reality of being a young queer actor on Disney, their new youtube channel, and maybe babies and Miranda. And I'm Raven and this is pride. Well, while I was growing up in the industry, my actuality was not a factor of concern or conversation to anyone within the team or within the industry because I was always taught to keep my private life private and separate. For years, only Ravens close circle of friends and family knew that she was interested in dating men and women. It wasn't until two thousand and thirteen, after the US Supreme Court pass the marriage of Quality Act, that she decided to come out publicly to her fans and for her it felt like starting a whole new chapter. I felt as if it was at a moment where I wasn't really going to ever go back to children's television. I felt as if, you know, moving forward to my career, I'm going to start doing more adult things. Raven took a chair as an outspoken cohost on the view for two years before she made her long awaited return to Disney channel. In two thousand and seventeen, she reprised the role of Raven Baxter for Ravens home, a spinoff of that. So Raven it felt amazing and at the same time I was mad at myself because I could have embraced who I was a lot earlier and made it a part of the conversation, to kind of spearhead the whole entire diversity push. But again, during that time, ok, you know the different sitcomes when I was younger and the first installment of the Raven Baxter character. You know, the talk of my personal life was never something I was allowed or comfortable to talk about, but it feels good to be able to do it now.

As media representation evolves, the entertainment industry is slowly introducing more lgbtq plus inclusive characters. But when Raven was offered a queer role, she found yet another obstacle. She would have to overcome stereotypes. There was a very prominent black show that asked me to come on when I first came out and they wanted me to be the lesbian representation of all lesbians and they had this stereotype of what this character should be and I turned it down and I remember people in my camper like this is your moment. I said no, No, if I get into this and I start, you know, representing that, that am I going to say label, but more of identity. If I'm going to start really representing my true identity on screen, it's not going to be in a stereotypical fashion, it's not going to be written from a straight person's mindset. It's going to be a more authentic so you know, I've had a really had to really cross that threshold of acting within that lesbian world, and so that's probably where my frustration lies at the most, and not just here but also in my size. You know, there weren't many companies in the industry that were open to hiring people of all shapes, races and sizes. So I think again, my sexuality and who I loved was never the forefront of my mind when it came to casting. was mostly like, why don't you guys want to think black girl like, let alone in a lesbian now you'll hear from Miranda, Raven's wife. If this is your first time hearing that your favorite cheater girl is married, you're probably not alone. The too, kept their relationship private up until they tied the knot in two thousand and twenty, and I think for people who have followed Raven and love her and know her, it was kind of a shock to just all of a sudden have this announcement one day of like hi, I'm married and just here I am and people are like, who in the world is that girl? And we still get that. People are like who that girl with Raven? I'm like hi, I'm her wife. Who Are you? And you know, we know our history and it wasn't shocking to us, obviously, as the people behind it all, but I understand it was jarring for others. After announcing their relationship to the world, the couple openly shared their lives online. They even launched a youtube channel together called eight PM. I actually was the person who really pushed the youtube channel and I kind of pitched it to Raven and my my idea was we are unique and I think that there's space in the world for us. When I look at, you know, people in the public eye, I don't see many interracial lesbian couples. I...

...know that we have wanted the pike's and her wife, the woman who was on in the handmaid's tale, and Samar. Yeah there, okay, yeah, exactly. So sorry, Samar. You know I love you, but you know, I was just there aren't very many and so I thought, first, let people see that, let people see that we are just your average normal, kind of quirky, funny married couple. But also I knew that people had an interest, in desire to see more into the quote quote, Authentic Raven. So all Miranda had to do was get raven on board with the idea. One day, after kind of mulling it over for a few months, Raven was just like okay, so I started. I started to put the platform, like I signed us up on Youtube and it's called a PM and here you go, and I was kind of like, Oh wow, this is real, we're doing it, and I'm a Sagittarius. Yeah, and she's like, preproduction is over, it's time to start the launch dates. Today, we make videos every two days and Thursdays and we game on Wednesdays exactly. So, yes, it what it was, until we then realized that it was a lot more work than we were anticipating. We were like okay, because initially ravens like will post three times a week and we'll do this and yeah, we'll have multiple channels, and then when it actually came to the reality of it, we're like, okay, so one video of a week or falling behind. We need to generate so much more content. Oh my God, both fighting. All of a sudden it became this whole thing. Miranda and Ravens Channel gives you a personal look into their life together. They share cooking recipes, daily blogs and road trip adventures. We have had conversations about the lack of authentic programming or representation for children, meaning where our children going, where they can see a household that has two MOMS or two dads or a mom and a dad, but who are you know, black, ones white, or one's Asian and one's Latino, and this is what the family looks like on programming that's actually made for kids, when you're not having to go to like a modern family type scenario. So we've talked about that too and wanting to kind of create spaces where that can be and I think that, although we're not taking that on in terms of our youtube channel, were like a micro representation of the greater image of what that could potentially look like, just educating, sharing and having fun with people who choose to tune in. Do you feel any sort of like obligation to now keep doing it, to keep that representation going? And and I guess for there's a lot of people, young people, especially on Youtube, probably more so than our watching Disney channel. Do you feel any obligation, like, oh, we got to keep making content? I think yes, but it sounds more like, oh yeah, we got to make some more content. You know, it's not a burden necessarily, but it is something that we are cognizant of and that, you know, if we want the...

...if we want to start building the stereotype, we should build it correctly. You know, we shouldn't let anybody else form it except for the authentic people who are living in that space, and don't let anybody else have the the reins to it. Where you're content creator, whether you're gay, straight, trans whatever, you know, there is this pressure to just continue having to turn things out, and now there is a certain not necessarily obligation per se, because but I definitely read the comments and I see people saying things like, Oh, I would love to see you twice a week, or you're the highlight of May week, or I want more, I want more, and I feel an excitement or maybe like a motivation to say, like we have to keep our ideas coming out, but at the same time I think that we have good boundaries and understandings and place and it's better, I think, to have, you know, content that comes out once a week and it's done well and it's done thoughtfully and it's entertaining and funny, then be burning ourselves out trying to create more than we can actually sustain at this time. So it's like we have those conversations and also know within our marriage and in our dynamic. You know, the Youtube Channel is great and it's fun, but if it starts to become stressed between us or we have to adjust, there's always going to be that and we want to be the leaders in this field. So what she said, on top of what she said, I don't want anybody else taken this rains. This is our rains, this is what we do. So in the future when they're like, we paint the first no, no, Boo, boo. Okay, we work. When we come back cyber bullying, a Lesbian Raven Baxter and Dula Magic, welcome back. Today we're talking to Raven Simone and her wife, Miranda Mad Day. Before the break we started talking about Raven and Miranda's Youtube Channel called eight PM, which is the couple launched after they surprised everyone online with the news of their marriage, but when they first started the channel they had their doubts about whether or not it would be successful. One of the first things we did was a collaboration with Muck Bongger who's been on the platform for like five or six years, named Nico Coado, and we did a Muckbong with him and it went up on his channel and our channel kind of simultaneously, and the people on his channel absolutely hated me and I remember, you know, when he was posting kind we were excited. We were like this is going to be a really big push for our channel. He has, you know, millions of followers. We made a friend. We made a friend like we were. We were happy about it, and I remember after it went live, like looking after added a couple of hours later and it was just like Miranda Sucks Moore. It was just aled and it wasn't even like, oh, throwing in a job against Raven or nick. It was just... me after me, after me, after me, and that one that was like a hard pill to swallow because that was also kind of like the first time I'd ever been exposed to anything like that, and I feel like it was a fantastic ripping of the band aid, because it was just like push me right into it. It's kind of interesting because they're so far from the truth that I think if when things are a little bit more rooted in truth or in my own personal insecurities, those ones will like sting. But I think ultimately, like when they call her a Karen and she's like, are you serious, and then she's goes off as a Leo. It's Hilarious, though, the way she deals with it. I like stopped. It was and I was doing that in the beginning because I was like, oh my gosh, and I would just kind of like play. It is fun to respond sometimes. It's fun to be like I need a singer, you're getting a singer exactly, and she had the best ones. I feel like you need to keep this up, because those who watch youtube are different from those who interact on the decay, on the chats, and you too, true and it's a whole different world. And she was coming for him, honey, and it was so sweet and kind. I was like that's my wife, that's or I would just like be great. I would know people would criticize me and they would say it was the most boring person, or poor raven is married to this controlling freak, and I'd be like, you're right, like I have to work on my control issues. Thank you so much for taking the time to watch and comment. And you know, I've had like people analyze my body language and they're like, you know, she seems so rude and disinterested. I was like, you're correct, I was so irritating to day and you know, I want to work on not letting my emotions run my face like that. But I thank you for the end. People are like what like, don't even understand, but ultimately this, I think the truth is, is that the good and the bad are just things. They're important, but also, like you can't let them impact you. And ultimately, the negative at the end of the day, has so much more to do with that individual than it does with us or ourselves, because those people don't know us and they're making judgments off of who knows what. So you take it all with a grain of salt again, the positive and the negative, and move on and just keep doing what you're doing. Miranda was new to the world of online bullying, but Raven has been facing criticism since her early days as a public personality. Oh yes, multiple, multiple levels of torment, you know, from having to do, you know, essays about who I'm dating on Facebook, to apologizing about this, to hearing people say all kinds of comments like I look like a fat poodle, or you know why it's you, whose weight? is she pregnant all the time, to just a lot of disrespectful things. Body image has become a big cultural conversation as many brands and celebrities are moving past the ideology of perfection created in Photoshop and are choosing to celebrate all body types. If I'd Ha...

...done that when I was doing that so raven, I'm sorry, it wouldn't ever happen because nobody would allow it. So, you know, I have two sides of the coin. To where I'm really, really happy the world is changing and yes, all of the torment that I went through in those times has strengthened me to, you know, hopefully tell her to don't worry about the Commons, even though everybody has to go through their own journey. And on the same coin, but on the other side I'm very pissed because that pain and suffering happened during a time in my life when I was very young and also at the top of my game and felt, you know, I had to smile in public, but felt very sad and depressed and going through mental health issues behind the scenes, but also covering that up because that wasn't something that was talked about either. So, you know, yeah, I'm jealous, not that you ask me this, but I'm very jealous of all of the people in the industry now that are able to just I'm so, I have depression and I'm bigger and I'm beautiful and I'm okay, and I'm like when was that? Like, no one told me I could do that. That wasn't allowed when I was growing up, and now I'm thirty five and I'm just like angry, just like this anger bubble, you know. But whatever, at the end of the day, Miranda and Raven have each other to lean on while navigating life in the lime light. If there was, you know, report or a story that broke about Raven and I and it was or about me and it was tearing me down and it was on magazine covers, are on blogs and you know, closer to what Raven experienced as a younger person who would go to a premiere and then get slaughtered the next day or called me names. That's different than what we're experiencing, because what we are truly experiencing when we have the youtube, where the instagram hate, is just internet rolls, and although that can be very destructive and hurtful, it's also it's it's like you click on that person to see who you know. Let me investigate this person who just said this nasty thing, and it's one person with like thirty five followers and they're just somebody hiding behind the veil of what you know, a screen can make them feel powerful to say those things. But I think it also does come down to the private conversations that my wife and I have about my history and knowing what I went through. And yet she was in the industry before, but in a different capacity, and she witnessed it from a different level. But she also didn't know. She wasn't a follower of mine beforehand. She wasn't a fan, she wasn't someone that's searched out my material. So hearing my journey through the industry prior to a starting with Youtube, and then moving forward, knowing that because of me, we are either going to be a very public couple or we're going to have to show our face here and there. You know, she understand is what my history is and knows that there's going to be,... know, some repreparation from what happened in the past and she was prepared for that. We talked about it. We discussed it and she was prepared from the beginning. Are there times, Miranda, where you want to just go to bat for her, like times when something's going on with Ravens, you know, social let's say, or you know, magazine article, and you just like Crasi on them totally. I was actually going to say that we were together. Well, Raven was on the view and during that time there were a few things that came up and that was one of the first times where I was just like, oh my gosh, she's being so taken out of context or there's such, you know, true misunderstanding and the going through those experiences with her as just a partner behind the scenes were also I learned from that. You know, I can put things that I observed then in terms of how she handled it her how things got twisted or how things are manipulated, into practice today with what we deal with and yes, I mean, even if it's not on a on a public in a public scenario, there are many times when, you know, even if we just deal with personal stuff, and somebody says something that I don't think is very kind or is disrespectful towards Raven, that I'm very like she's a Leah. Yeah, that's the end of the question exactly. I'm taking care of I'm real good. I gotta, I gotta Bull Horn over here, okay, and we get my refunds and no body says nothing. Okay, quite protective. That the people that I love, but particularly ray then and I always got to happen. So, yeah, I'm safe when facing harsh criticism from people online. Raven and Miranda say they're cautious, but they don't tiptoe around sharing their opinions. I've always had the mentality of political correctness will set you on a different path. Ultimately, people will be mad that you're not totally spilling the tea, but they also can cancel you. And so you know now that things are changing. It's and this is a big comparison, but I mean it's like a witch hunt, you know what I mean? It's like back in what was the what was this Salem? That's like she's a witch, you know, and then it's like you can't say anything to prevent the bitch works from coming out. I think it's, you know, one of the waves of ignorance that comes from social media that it will eventually die out because everyone has an opinion and if we were to really cancel culture, then all the trolls will be canceled. And you can't cancel culture because there are so many opinions and that's what makes our country go round, whether we like it or not. What I have noticed is when people do say things that they then get kind of like ripped alive for, even alive for, and they are in the wrong, or if they're very misunderstood. In my mind,... somebody WHO's mostly had to like sit back on the couch and observe these things, I've always thought why not just come forward and say in a really like clean way, trying and speak your truth? For example, if you've said something that you knew was wrong and you said it out of anger or whatever the situation was, I think that there is a time in a space where that person can then come back forward and own it and apologize or say I spoke out of, you know, lack of education, or I spoke from anger, or I spoke because I wanted attention or whatever it is. But I think it's very difficult for people to own things. Miranda recently came face to face with the reality of cancel culture after she posted some photos to her instagram story of a photo shoot in which she wore braids in her hair. Raven obviously where's braids quite a bit and every time she has her braids to her hair done, I'm like, I wish I could do that. That looks so beautiful on you, and she was like try for the photo shoot and I was like okay, and the woman I Shaw, who braids her hair, was there and did it for me and it was I felt so good. I loved how it looked. I thought it was really fun and we did like post a picture or and then, like Raven, did a instagram live. So people saw me that way and people, there were people and comments that were really angry and they thought that I was like stealing a hair style as a white person that I shouldn't be wearing. And people are, you know, told said that they were going to be on following us now and they couldn't believe it and Raven was terrible for letting her white wife do something like that, and you know, that's just irrating. And it's things like these, situations like that, where I've liked worn a style that people would feel offended by. You know, I was asked about it through my social media and I posted a response on my stories just saying the history of braids is really fascinating. People should look into that. I love that black women and men keep that style alive today and I think that any fashion statement or or hairstyle or makeup trend that a person likes to wear from an authentic space, meaning you're not making fun of a culture, you're not, you know, down playing someone, but you're wearing it because you truly think it's beautiful and it makes you feel good about yourself and you're wear it were to you and you wear it right, though, you know what I guess it has to look good on you. She wore correctly, and that's the problem. Like Britain, to us, though, like they're going to be some people who look at me and think I look terrible you don't know those people, you love back, but that's okay. I mean, that's the thing. Like their their opinion is their opinion and they're entitled to it. But I think that when it becomes this bigger conversation of like a white person wearing a style and I'm then, you know, culturally appropriating or not something, I think that that's where it, you know, just heat comes, it intensifies. And again that's where I'm using that example, but if I were to that isn't really one of them, but step into a... where I said something inappropriately or hurt somebody or done Duh, I would just acknowledge it. We're America, we are Americans and within America, technically we're supposed to be a melting pot and everybody wears all kinds of styles because we're in Tair afluenced by all kinds of people that have come to America to be influenced by people. If you're going to get flag for wearing braids, somebody else in the black community she get flak for straightening their hair. Somebody else should beat get flak for, you know, cutting straight bangs and, you know, going jet black, like we got US stop beating up on ourselves and know that this is America. We're supposed to be melding together. We're supposed to have, you know, fried chicken with, you know, shrimp, Fried Rice and a pork roast are were and shut me over here bottom together. I mean, that sounds like a really good muck bomb. You're welcome. If you're wondering if we're even claps back at haters online, the answer is no, not anymore at least. I mean, we're even when that happened, did it? Was it hard for you to not, like, immediately jump on like the defense and do your own response to it? No, that wasn't a very easy for me not to do that. Rave it is so good at not responding. There's the figure I forgot. She's just like, who cares? Literally, no, really, because I'm really because I back in the day, I gave into those little moments of prodding to see, to see if somebody can react. You know, I gave into those moments and I reacted, and so to me that I'm the black one in the family, I didn't. I wasn't offended by her wearing braids. I'm good if you're if you're offended, then that's your problem. You don't say nothing crazy to our face personally, in our human space, but if you're on instagram or youtube and you say something, that's going to happen. But of course I'll. I'll, you know, defend my wife when it comes down to it. Of someone's in person and they're like pulling her hair, I'm some my home, you know, not problem. But when it comes to instagram and all of the comments, it's like, Babes, it is your turn. I did mine. I know what the deal is. I know we've talked a lot about how the characters you see on the screen are not representative of the actors who are bringing those characters to life. But still I had to ask about the possibility of seeing a Queer Raven Baxter. Well, you know what, there was a conversation before the series started and I was asked the question, would you like Raven Baxter to be a lesbian? And I said No. I said no, and the reason I said no wasn't because I wasn't proud of who I was or I didn't want to represent the LGBTQ plus community in any way. It was because Ray...

...and Baxter is Raven Baxter is Raven Baxter and there was no reason for me to change the human that she was in order to fit the actress that played her. And Raven Baxter is a character that I was proud to play, even if she is straight, says gender. I don't mind, let her have a moment. She was divorced, though, and I had no worries about saying no boyfriend. I heard her in so many conversations. No boyfriends. I'm not kissing anybody. No boyfriends. I don't want. I mean, I did that. You know what I mean. I wasn't really gonna, you know, push she has divorced and bitter. You write that it and she wears pants all the time and she did not see it coming. So she's super annoyed. Exactly exactly, and I felt like, you know, the quiet undertones of living with Chelsea was enough. You know. So, not that that was a true statement, that that was never the intention of living with my best friend, but you know, people say stuff that you know it's just hilarious. But yeah, I didn't want to change who she was. And again, when you really start blending your personal self with your character self, it's even a harder like I'm stereotyped for the rest of my life. Let's just keep it one hundred. You know what I mean. If you ever see me in another character, I see Ray, you see Raven Baxter, and that's just what the deal is. And I think the one thing that differentiates me from her is now a lot more people already think that I'm like Chelsea from Ravens O. People are like, Oh my God, Raven married her Costarre. People also think I'm Miranda from bunk, Miranda May. So we're just going to have to keep like, keep really solidifying our youtube, get it all over here and we're are so so for many people, the first time they had the pleasure of meeting Miranda was on the couple's youtube channel, and I think that this is inspired me to just figure more out about what makes me tick and what I like to do, and it's awesome to be creative and to be creative with Raven and to also get to see how she works, and we actually work really well together. We compliment each other, so we're I have my weaknesses, she's kind of stronger and vice versa. So we're a good team in the creative space as well, which I really appreciate, and I'm assuming raven agrees with that, everything she said. And on top of creating content online, Miranda is also a birthing Dulah. What is it? Duela, you ask. A DUELA offers emotional and physical support during the birthing process, helping create a safe and comforting environment for expecting moths. Giving birth is really intense. So yes, it can be very stressful, but hopefully, if you have a Duela with you, they're taking some of that reusser anxiety off of your plate by helping... understand that everything you're experiencing, for the most part, is entirely normal. And yes, labor and birth are painful experiences. However, there's a difference between pain and suffering and no one should suffer and if you begin to suffer, there are interventions that can, you know, take place to help you. But it's amazing work. I haven't it's shifted for me because of the pandemic and things like that, but the people that I have supported are all, you know, in this special place in my heart and watching human life come into the world and seeing what the female body can do, it will change you. It's absolutely incredible. She is so calm, collected, so thoughtful, kind of psychic in her own way, very empathetic and she when she's not doing I get all that. So I'm like, wow, they're lucky. So what's next from Miranda and Raven? There might be a baby coming someday, but not yet. Is Before Raven and I. I think when Raven and I were like two months into dating. She's like you want to have kids? That was like when she's like, well, I don't know, like I need to have a baby by the time I'm this age and you know, are sent a lesbian sometimes really is just a two hours in. So do you want to have a baby now? And I ordered the you haul. Do we need a seventeen or a twenty three? Literally, no joke, literally, but I think we probably if we could make a baby without needing more help than we do. We brought Waly without babies at this point, whole life out there and just say something about why. I like yeah, it's just been I think it probably would have just happened, but because we've also wanted baby. I mean I've been one babies forever. So that I always say that the lucky part of being lesbians that we can plan for it. So we're planning for it. We're doing what we need to do financially to make sure it's set up. We're doing what we need to do healthwise to make sure it's healthy, because we are true believers in, you know, transference. So I looks very important. You have to get our brains right. We have to get our brains right. We have to ever find a line exactly. You want to bring this baby into a world of chaos and bad negativity on youtube comments, exactly, and I don't want that baby to be a catalyst of more negativity that's coming out. I want it to have its health prepared and ready even before it's over here kicking bellies. We have to just we have a few other things, and you know, it's funny because we got married obviously during the pandemic and we didn't get to travel together do any of the other things that we kind of had on our list of what we would do after marriage. Is just a newly WED couple. We didn't get to go like the beach and Thailand and like you know. So it's also like we want to have a couple of years together before everything shifts yet again. But I'm getting old and thirty five she's getting known. I'm just myging that old you and never old, but I'm in and we're going to have to hurry up soon. Well,...

...maybe soon. Promise. Yeah, I love that. There's happening, Karroken, I'm going to hold you to it. You said you would someone. Yeah, there was a promise made, so right, I'll check back in nine months. We're going to do part two of this episode. You can keep up with Raven and Miranda's journey by following their Youtube Channel, eight PM. Pride is a production of Straw head media. If you like to show leave us a rating and review on Apple, podcast, spotify or wherever you listen to podcast. Then follow us on Instagram, facebook and twitter at pride and make sure to tune in weekly for new episodes. Be Sure to share this episode with your friends and subscribe for more stories from Amazing Queer people. If you'd like to connect with me, you can follow me everywhere. At Lea by chambers. Pride is produced by me, leave by chambers, Maggie Bowls, Ryan Tillotson and Caitlyn mcdaniel, edited by Silvana, I'll Calla, and Daniel Fera sound mixing by Silvana. I'll calla if it's just a little stressful, that maybe won't do it raight. was like no, we're going to be the best. Totally. That's that's that's our relationship. That's what our conversations look like. I'm like, Babe, if it's too much, she's like, we never going to quit, we're never gonna fail, we're never going to surrender. I was like, Oh my God, okay, when I pitched this, yeah, you right, honey. Let's go.

In-Stream Audio Search


Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (151)