Pirate Queens w/ Dr. Rebecca Simon
PRIDE
PRIDE

Episode · 4 months ago

Pirate Queens w/ Dr. Rebecca Simon

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Today we set sail with an old friend of the pod who originally joined us back in 2019 to teach us all about the queer history of pirates, Dr. Rebecca Simon. In our previous conversatio, we covered a more general history of pirates and the queerness many male pirates expressed through clothing and sxuality–like the gentleman pirate Captian Stede Bonnet, and the infamous Black Beard. We also discussed her book Why We Love Pirates: The Hunt for Captain Kid and How He Changed Piracy Forever.

During our 2019 discussion, Rebecca also briefly touched on two notable female pirates who dressed like men in battle, subverted they’re femininity into a weapon, and may have even been Lesbian Lovers. These two badass pirates were Anne Bonny and Mary Reed, and they left quite an impression on me and our audience back in 2019. So when I heard that Rebecca had recently written the first full length book on the history of Anne and Mary, I had to have her back on the pod to share her findings, and give Anne, Mary, and all women pirates the platform they deserve. In today’s four part episode, we will learn about how Anne Bonny and Mary Reed became pirates, how their relationship unfolded, the research that went into writing Pirate Queens, and Rebecca's thoughts on depictions of pirates in the media today.

So yee scallywags, come aboard the PRIDE ship, and join us as we uncover the treasures of Anne and Mary’s buried history.

Your host is Levi Chambers, founder of Rainbo Media Co. You can follow Levi @levichambers across socials.

Follow the show and keep up with the conversation @PRIDE across socials.

Want more great shows from Straw Hut Media? Check out or website at strawhutmedia.com.

PRIDE is produced by Levi Chambers, Frank Driscoll, Maggie Boles, Ryan Tillotson, and Brandon Marlo. Edited by Frank Driscoll and Daniel Ferrera.

Have an interesting LGBTQ+ story to share? We might feature U! Email us at lgbtq@strawhutmedia.com.

*This podcast is not affiliated with Pride Media.

...straught media. The concept of a queer relationship did not exist in the eighteenth century. Sexual activity between two men was considered to be an offense that you could have you imprisoned, whereas for women, a queer relationship between two women wasn't even a concept. Um The idea that two women could have sex didn't exist at all and it wouldn't even be considered adultery. So if an Bonnie and Mary Reid did have a relationship, no one would have blinked an eye because no one would have considered it one. If that makes sense. Oh I maybe I'm your pirate, Captain Levi Chambers. My pronouns are he, him, his, and this is pride. Today we set sail with an old friend of the pod who originally joined us back in to teach us all about the queer history of pirates. I'm Dr Becka Simon and I'm a historian of the Golden Age of pirates, so pirates in the American colonies in the Caribbean during the sixteen and Seventeen hundreds, and I've been researching and writing about pirates since as a Grad student, so for over ten years now, and I teach community college in L A and I've published two books, why we love pirates, the hunt for captain kid and how we changed piracy forever, and my newest book just came out about a month ago, called pirate Queens, the lives of Anbonnie and Mary read. When our first mate, Rebecca joined us last we covered a more general history of pirates and the queerness many male pirates expressed through clothing and sexuality, like the Gentleman Pirate Captain Steed Bonnet and the infamous blackbeard. We also discussed her book, why we love pirates, the hunt for captain kid and how he changed piracy forever. That book was a lot of fun to write and a lot of it was actually based on my phd where I researched public executions of pirates in the sixteen and seventeen hundreds and I was looking a lot at a pirate named Captain Kid who had a very memorable, very public try L and execution when he was accused of...

...piracy in the at the turn of the eighteenth century. So I was when I started to write this book, I really wanted to explore kind of like how perceptions of piracy have changed over time, because that's kind of where my research was really born out of Um and that's kind of how I began researching executions and trials, because that's how people really begin to view pirates. So in the book it's kind of like it is a general overview of the history of pirates, but I also go into a lot of detail about why people were actually really interested in them and how people viewed pirates, and then how kind of the way we look at pirates has changed from, you know, the sixteen hundreds all the way up to today, basically going from like these frightening criminals to Jack Sparrow essentially. During our discussion, Rebecca also briefly touched on two notable female pirates who dressed like men in battle, subverted their femininity into a weapon and may have been queer lovers. These two Badass pirates were Anne Bonnie and Mary read, and they left quite an impression on me and our audience back in nineteen so when I heard that Rebecca had recently written the first full length book on the history of Anne Bonnie and Mary read, I had to have her back on the pod to share her findings and give Anne, Mary and all women pirates the platform they deserve. In today's four part episode, we'll learn about how Anne, Bonnie and Mary read became pirates, how their relationship unfolded, the research that went into writing pirate queens and Rebecca's thoughts on depictions of pirates in the media today. So, Ye scallywags, come aboard the pride ship and join us as we uncover the treasures of I am Bonnie and Mary reade buried history. Could you kind of set the tone for the time, the space? Where are we? Yea So and Bonnie and Mary read existed in the early eighteenth century. So they were pirates for only two months between August and October of seventeen twenty. And what makes them...

...so interesting is that their origins are actually a bit mysterious. We don't have a lot of information about their early lives. Most likely, it's believed, that they were probably working class women, and women during that time in the eighteenth century pretty much had two choices in life to get married and have children or probably to work in domestic servitude. So the fact that they were somehow able to break out of those expected roles and wind up on not just a ship but a pirate ship is truly amazing, because not only that, we a lot of times women weren't allowed to work on ships, especially on pirate ships, and the fact that they were able to not get tied down by eighteen centuries social expectations for women and were able to thrive, even though for a short time, able to thrive on a pirate ship is absolutely no less than amazing, especially in such a Matt Violent Masculine Maritime World. How did they how do they find themselves in that situation where they were able to work on pirateships? And Bonnie was originally from Ireland and then when she was really young, her father moved her and her mother to the Carolinas and when Anne Bonnie was a teenager, about sixteen years old, she married a sailor named James Bonnie and she was able somehow to sail with him and they after several years they wound up in the Bahamas, in Nassau, which is a city on the island of providence that had also historically been kind of a pirate stronghold for quite some time. And while they were there James Bonnie actually found work as a pirate hunter and and Bonnie and him ended up separating and we're not quite sure why, but Anne Bonnie took up with a pirate captain named Jack Rackham. Anne wanted a divorce from James Bonnie so she could marry Jack Rackham and in fact Anne Bonnie was almost arrested for it because the governor was very against it. So this is when Jack Rackham decided that they should literally sneak away. So the owl of ship called the William, he renames it the...

...revenge and then they go to sea as pirates, and that's August of seventeen twenty. Now we don't know how they met Mary Reid. That's kind of the big mystery here. But Um, when the governor put out a warrant for their arrest, he did list Mary read as one of the pirates he was after. So people knew she was a woman who had joined up with them. But we just don't know the circumstances because with Mary there's even less information. It's very possible that she may have already been married and living in Jamaica because of Um, some there was a petition of a whole bunch of women whose husband's a been arrested for piracy and the women were trying to get them released from prison and one of the signatures on it says Mary read, so there's a chance she may have are already been living in the Caribbean. We can never know for sure how the three pirates met. What is certain is that Mary Reid, disguised as a man, boarded the revenge and set sail with Anne and Jack An. Bonnie and Mary read were officially pirates, but what was life like for two women aboard of all dominated pirate ship? So their experience as a pirate in terms of success wasn't as great as they hoped. Um, in those two months they were mostly sailing in and around Jamaica, so they didn't cover much ground and they only really had one or two big successes where they were able to capture larger fishing boats um or larger like, I think, one merchant ship which had a lot of cash on it, lots of goods on it, and so that was a big celebration. But the vast majority of time the ships they captured were more smaller fishing boats and they didn't even capture that many. They their biggest prize was in October, during a period of time when a lot of the cruise morale was actually quite low because of it. So it's interesting in terms, even though their career was only for two months and technically Jack Rackham wasn't really a very successful pirate in terms of getting lots of wealth, it's because of Anaboni and Mary read that they've all become so, so famous, because at the time two female pirates who were voluntarily working as pirates. They weren't kidnapped into it,...

...they weren't forced into it. This is what made them so um, this is what made them so notorious for the age. Although their victories aboard the revenge were few and far between, that didn't mean there wasn't plenty of drama aboard. In fact, historians have written of Queer attraction between an Bonnie and Mary read and a full on love triangle among Ann, Mary and Jack. Rebecca conducted a great deal of research around these claims and her findings helped to separate fact from fiction. In the book of General History of the pirates, which is where which was a seventeen publication by Captain Charles Johnson. It's a collection of pirate biographies and a lot of the biographies are quite factual, but a lot of them are very fictional. Um and most of the information we have about Ann Bonnie and Mary read outside of the trial transcript Um, is from a general history of the pirates and it's likely a lot of it might have been fictionalized. But according to Johnson Um, when he wrote about Aunt Bonnie Mary read, Mary Reid had was disguised as a man on the ship and and didn't know Mary Reid was a woman in disguise and actually tried to seduce her because she liked this young sailor and then, according to Johnson and was quote very disappointed when she discovered that Mary Reid was actually a woman. But what's interesting is that they still remained very, very close and Jack Rackham Um, not knowing that Mary Reid was actually a woman, was very, very jealous and Mary Reid woke up in the middle of the night to Jack Rackham basically having a dagger at her neck threatening to kill her for this. And so Mary Reid had to reveal herself to Jack Rackham and at that point he kind of backs off and Um, the two of them and then sort of the three of them do, according to Johnson, kind of enter into a relationship, although that's actually quite murky in terms of the details because, Um, on the one hand he writes he makes it sound like they do kind of enter into a relationship. On the other hand he also writes...

...that Mary Reid did marry one of the other sailors on the ship after that point. So the history is quite convoluted, but that's what makes it so interesting. In in all of your research outside of and Bonnie Mary read, Do you feel like the possibility of them having a queer relationship is there beyond the fantasy, I guess you're or the fictional aspects of his accounts? There's always the possibility Um, because especially because, like in the trial transcript, people did note that the women were together all the time and Um, that they were quite close. But it's at the same time it's very difficult to ascertain because there's no written record about it because the concept of a queer relationship did not exist in the eighteenth century. Um, it was considered Um same sex relationships. Um, sexual activity between two men was considered to be an offense that you could have you imprisoned, whereas for women, a queer relationship between two women wasn't even a concept. Um, the idea that two women could have sex didn't exist at all and it wouldn't even be considered adultery. So if Anne Bonnie and Mary Reid did have a relationship, no one would have blinked an eye because no one would have considered it one, if that makes sense. And so this is why, as a result, it's Um this is why, as a result, we can't ever really know if the two of them had relationship or not. There's a LGBT storian named Richter Norton who I think put it very well. At most they may have been bisexual, but again, we're never going to know. Well, we may never know the true nature or existence of Anne and Mary Sexual Relationship. We do know from firsthand accounts that they queered their femininity through masculine clothing, weaponize their sexuality by bearing their breasts and subverted gender expectations with their fierce fighting skills and ruthlessness in battle. What's really interesting is that Um in battle, according to...

...the witnesses the hostages that had survived um their capture on their on Anbonnie Mary root ship, Um, they would dress in men's clothes and they often fought with their shirts open, bearing their breasts for all to see, as kind of an intimidation tactic. Um, and they were known to swear more, curse more, fight harder and be way more ruthless than any of the other men. So they, you know, presented very masculine, um in a lot of ways in terms of behavior, but Um, in terms of their dress, they again they showed off their female body. Their hair was long and flowing, not tied back, so kind of presenting both sides of themselves. But then what's also interesting is when they weren't fighting in battle, they would wear women's clothing, Um, in general on the ship. It was really only during battle. So it shows that they were huge participants in battle. They were good at what they were doing and Um, they were also able to use kind of their female body as an intimidation tactic in order to get the other side to surrender quite quickly. In fact, there was an instance when, Um, they came upon a small fishing boat that a woman named Dorothy Thomas was on, and Jack Rackham he was he didn't want to attack a woman, he didn't want to kidnap a woman, Um, and so he was going to he let her go, but both in and Mary actually tried to convince him to kill Dorothy Thomas saying that she could speak out against us if you let us go, and Jack Rackham said No. So it's interesting that's that's these two women were the ones who are like no, we need to kill the hostage, whereas Jack Rackham's like no, we can't do that, although it's into what's going to be kind of ironic later is that a Bonnie and Mary Reid were correct. Dorothey Thomas was one of the chief witnesses at their trial. After they've been arrested. After two short months of possible threesomes and definitive savagery, and Mary and the rest of their crew were captured by pirate hunters, but, true to form, and and Mary didn't go down without a fight. The same cannot be said for Jack and the rest of the men aboard the revenge. Near midnight on October twenty two,...

...the pirate hunters began attacking the revenge. And and Mary shouted for their male crewmates to stand with them and fight, but most of the men had passed out from the night's drinking, and when Jack saw how outnumbered they were, he and his cowardly men hid below deck, leaving Anne and Mary to fend for themselves. And and Mary put up a fierce fight, but it was impossible for them to win and they were ultimately imprisoned with the rest of their crew. The women never forgave the men for their cowardice. In fact, on the day of Jack's execution and made her fury known. So it's kind of like an iconic piece of an Bonnie and Mary read's history. So Jack Rackham and all the men on the crew were put on trial first and they were all pronounced guilty and sentenced to hang within just about ten days. So in November of seventeen twenty, on the day Jack Rackham was going to hang, he really wanted to talk to Anne Bonnie, his wife, and so she and Mary hadn't even been put on the stand yet. They were being tried separately. So and Bonnie is taken to cell and he's basically asking for words of comfort, and all she said to him was I'm sorry to see you this way, but have you fought like a man, you need not hang like a dog. So and that was it. Those are the last words that she ever said to him. And he hanged later that afternoon at a place called gallows point, which was later renamed rappin's key. To her that was just the utmost, the worst example of cowardice. And as a pirate, you know she's going to have way higher expectations for her husband in terms of being a pirate captain. A pirate captain should be leading you into battle, not running away from it. I guess we know who was really wearing the captain's hat in that relationship. Let's take a quick break. When we come back we'll learn the fate that befell these pirate Queens, what Rebecca's research process was like writing the book, and her opinion on the historical accuracy of Hollywood's latest foray into the world of pirates, the HBO Max.

Show our flag means death. Welcome back. Today we're speaking with pride, veteran pirate historian and author of pirate Queens, Rebecca Simon. Before the break, Rebecca told us how the infamous and Bonnie and Mary Reid became pirates, how they met and became fast friends, maybe even lovers, and how they were ultimately captured. But what happened to these Queens of the sea after they were imprisoned? So after they were captured, they were all thrown in prison in Jamaica, in Um Saint Iago de la Vega, which is modern day Spanish town just outside the capital of which is Kingston. And when and Bonnie and Mary read were put on the stand, it was actually very similar to all the other men's trials. You know, the victims who survived their pirate attacks all testified and everything was written down verbatim. But what's interesting is after their sentence was given, where they were pronounced to hang for their hymes, Um and Bonnie Mary read both, big plot twist, revealed that they were pregnant on the stand and sure enough, they did an examination, they were both pregnant. So what happened is they both got what was called a stay of execution, meaning that they would be imprisoned until the children were born and then after that they would be executed. Um. Now, most likely, they probably would not have been executed in the end because it was very rare for women, even if they were sentenced to death, it was very rare for women to actually be executed for their crimes. But unfortunately, what happened is that in April of seventeen twenty one mary read died in prison of what was referred to as jail fever, and jail fever was most likely typhus, which is an infection you get from life, but again during pregnancy math. It's very likely she also perhaps died in childbirth or complications of her pregnancy. Now and Bonnie, we don't know what happens. There's no death record for her, so it's likely she probably had the child and then was released from...

...prison, like most women were. It was long believed that she went back home to the Carolina's Um and rejoined her father, remarried and lived to a rifle age. But in I think it was in November of actually, a Youtuber, can't remember his name off top of the head, but a youtuber found death records for St Catherine's parish, which is the area in Jamaica where that they were put in prison. Um, a woman named Anne Bonnie is listed on a death record in seventy one, so it's possible she may have lived in Jamaica for the next ten years. I feel like a lot came out of Um your research for the book that these are so there's so many new tidbits here that we didn't discuss a few years ago. The last time we chatted and were there moments where you're like, oh my gosh, my entire like understanding of this moment in history is different now. Yeah, so I think when I had to take really really when I had to take a very close look at a general history of the pirates and kind of just like, you know, really try to filter out fact from fiction, that was brought me into whole new areas of research. So a lot of what a general history of the pirates tells us about Anbonnie may read, like I said before, is probably fiction. For instance, according to the book, Mary Reid had actually spent most of her life disguised as a boy and even fought in the army on the in Europe disguise as a man. Now there's no records of this. So what I was doing is I was having to do a lot of uh, like tangential research. So I was researching, okay, what would life have been like for women in the army and what were actual examples of women fighting in armies in the eighteenth century and, similar to what are some examples of women being on ships during that time if they were going to disguise themselves as men? What were those complications? So I had to go into a lot of research for that. You know, I was learning a lot about the lives of women and, of course I was trying...

...to examine did they have a queer relationships? I was going a lot into kind of LGBTQ history. So, as a historian I really grew during this, during this project, because there's so many areas that I've only really examined a little bit but that I was able to really really immerse myself into. Is it is it challenging to make queer connections throughout history, given that most of the terminology that we use as a community is much newer than the Golden Age of piracy? It sound like everyone wrote like she was queer, she was bisexual. You know that, just like you said, they weren't using that language. What, what kind of a challenge did that create for you? It's a huge challenge, especially since, you know, over time, Um, it's very much people very much have come to believe that they absolutely were, Um, a queer couple. Um, but we but we don't know. Um. And in fact, the idea that they were a queer couple is actually came about in the twenty century because, Um, I forget again, for your off top head, but some feminist writer in the nineteen seventies wrote an article about them, suggesting that the two of them were in a queer relationship, and that's kind of where we get this idea from. Um, in terms of trying to connect was that actually the fact for them or pirates in general? Um, in the seventeenth eighteen centuries. It's very difficult because again, the concept of homosexuality is we think it today, with the terminology and everything like that, just did not exist before the nineteenth century. Basically, now there's as we know, there have always been queer relationships about human history and in fact for a long period of human history it was considered to be very normal and in some areas even praised and part of the culture, such as in ancient Greece and Rome. But then in other cultures, as we get into Europe, into the more Middle Ages early modern period, it's seen as a sin Um that based on laws of the church down...

...and so for men, if they were in a relationship, it was considered to be a crime of sodomy, a crime of buggery and they would be put into prison. For Women, like I was saying before, if they were in a queer relationship. That concept didn't exist because with two women there's no penis involved and if there isn't one, then therefore they can't be having sex. And also this is stuff that just wasn't ever written down. You know, historians it's it's almost a bit frustrating because historians everything is based on a record of some sort, whether it's written down or depicted in art or something like that, and if it's not there we can never say for certain. You know, I can speculate and say absolutely there are queer pirates, d because there have been throughout human history. People ask me all the time. You know, we're all pirates gay. Were none of them gay? And I would say on a pirate ship on average, think of how many queer people are work with you in your place of employment. Probably a similar percentage on a pirate ship in general. But there is also kind of the idea, and this is probably pretty likely, of Um a lot of gay relationships happened on pirate ships because they were very isolated for a very long period of time, very little privacy, and so a lot of times this can cause what we call situational homosexuality. Um and pirates did form close relationships and there was there were some cases of romantic relationships and they would engage in something called mateletage, which is sort of like a civil union on a pirate ship, usually so that way pirates could create a bond with each other and have someone they could leave their goods too in case one of them died. Um, and sometimes that could have just been friendship, sometimes it could have been romantic. So I feel like I'm going on and on about this, Um, but what I'm saying is that it's one of those things. As a historian, I want to say a percent absolutely, Um, there's that maybe they maybe they had a relationship or absolutely they did not have a relationship, because I wish I could say either way, but because there's no documentation, I can't say either way. But just by looking at humanity and human history,...

Um, you know you can't erase you know, you can't erase queer history. There is a huge issue with queery, Ratiar and history and this is one of the frustrations that a lot of historians, especially today, Um, this generation, my generation of historians and the next ones. You know, we're really trying to grapple with it and try to see how we can rectify it. I think it's kind of cool that in this way, because history is not in some way set in stone in a lot of cases like this, it does leave some interpretation for the story up to readers and people who are finding them for the first time. So what do you hope readers take from your book and the story and Bonnie and Mary read? So I hope that this book kind of gives people Um kind of a whole new picture of what life would be like for female pirates in general, and at the beginning of the book I have a prologue that does where I do discuss that there were female pirates before them. But what was interesting is that those female pirates before them all came from very powerful families and were married to leaders of some sort, whereas an Bonnie Mary read, we're not. And so what I really want kind of readers to be able to take away from it is showing, just like how how there were women who were very much to accept the exception to the social rules of the eighteenth century and how their lives would have been. And I'm trying to sort of take use and Bonnie mayor read in a way to kind of highlight other women who undoubtedly sailed with pirates that we just don't know about, either because there were no records of them or because they disguise themselves as men. So what I want to what I'm hoping readers can get out of it, is to understand what that life would be like and to show that there's so much more than meets the eye. And what I also really wanted to do is really give and Bonnie and Mary Read Story Justice, because my book pirate Queens is the first full length biography that...

...has been written about them. There's been lots of articles written about them, there's been chapters about them and other books, but Um, you know, not to toot my own horn or anything, but I'm the first person to actually write a full length biography about them and so I really wanted to do them justice, to tell a really fascinating story and the best way I could with the little information that actually existed. So I'm hoping people will learn not just about these two fascinating women, but also kind of what life would have been like for female pirates and also kind of what life was like for women in lgbt history and how that all relates to piracy. So these are things that I'm hoping readers will get out of it and will also very much enjoy. I'm so excited for other people to read it because I find your your work so fascinating. I recently watched our flag means death, a new HBO Max show created by Taiko Y T t. The show was loosely based on the adventures of Eighteenth Century would be pirate Steve Bonnett, all so known as the gentleman pirate because of his flamboyant attire and his relationship with the infamous blackbeard. The show is very, very queer and I wanted to know Rebecca's thoughts on its historical accuracy. It's a fun show and there's a lot of things I like about it. I think they do a really good job showing the complexities of a pirate crew and how diverse it actually is, and I like that they do bring out Um queerness that did exist on pirate ships, like they're giving that a voice. I think our only criticism as a historian, just to be a little annoying as a historian, is that they took two real historical figures and kind of Um fabricated the reality of the relationship, because in real life Steve Bonnet and black beard actually hated each other and black beard, black beard, is the one actually who betrayed Steve Bonnet to the authorities, not the other way around. I've God, spoiler alert, not the other way around in real life. And so as a result I've had a lot of people, you know, contacting me and asking me, you know, like Oh, like what you know, what's the truth behind their gay...

...relationship? And I'm like, Oh, they're actually that that wasn't true. Um, but you know, the show does a great job kind of showing, Um, this really brilliant representation on a pirate ship that just isn't really seen very much. I think the only other place I've really seen, Um, good diversity of a pirate ship, including bringing kind of the queer history out, is the show black sales, which I love it, and actually, if I remember correctly, there's a lot of on screen saying sex engagements from a variety of people. Oh yeah, yeah, it's very present and which I think really I think, you know, some of it being a stars show and Um, the way that show is. I'm sure some of it is, you know, for TV's sake but at the same time I think it also very much is depicting sexual relationships as they probably were in that time period, in those situations, and also just as people developing close intimate relationships with each other. Even though the show might not be totally historically at curate, I highly recommend you give it a watch and immerse yourself in the fabulously queer world of pirates. And if it's historical accuracy you're craving, then go get yourself a copy of Dr Rebecca Simon's brilliant new book pirate Queens. So where can everyone where can everyone connect with you? Follow you? The two social media platforms I'm really active on our twitter and TIKTOK. So. On twitter my handle is betheleex, spelled B E C K A L E X, and on Tiktok it's pirate, recalex, one word. So basically my twitter handle decallex with the word pirate in front of it, and so that's where you can find them. You're a pirate on tiktok yes, exactly, Um, and you can also find all that, all those links on my website, which is Rebecca Dash Simon Dot Com. It's about information, about me all my writing and there's links to all of my social media on there as well. So, Um, and you'll find I also I am on Instagram, although I don't really use it professionally but um, I do...

...have an open you know, it's an open account, so people can follow me. It's my handle and instagram it's the same as my Tiktok candle Um, which makes it a bit easier. Thank you so much, Rebecca, for coming on the show again and sharing more of your pirate knowledge, or Queer pirate knowledge or knowledge of history. I am so appreciative and I love reading your work and listening to you. So I just want to say thank you, and I know that everyone else really loves listening to your stories and the information you have. Thank you so much for having me. It's really great coming on here again. Pride is a production of Straw hut media. If you like the show, leave us a reading and a review on Apple, podcasts, spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Then follow us on Tiktok, instagram, facebook, twitter and snapchat at pride and tune in weekly for more. Be Sure to share this episode with your friends and subscribe for more stories from Amazing Queer people. If you'd like to connect with me, you can follow me everywhere at leavy chambers. Pride is produced by me Levi Chambers, Frank Triscoll, Maggie Bowles, Ryan Tillotson and Brandon Marlowe, edited by Frank Driscoll and Daniel Ferrara.

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