Horror Movies Are Gay With Michael Varrati and Brendan Haley
PRIDE
PRIDE

Episode · 1 year ago

Horror Movies Are Gay With Michael Varrati and Brendan Haley

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

People have been terrified by the delights of a horror film since the late 1800s, during the earliest stages of motion-picture film. Since its creation, horror has developed into more than just a genre. It's a space to face our collective fears and explore the unknown. We're drawn to characters like Dracula or Freddy Krueger because they stand out from what is familiar. Otherness is a popular theme within horror films, especially for the LGBTQ+ community. Today, we chat with Michael Varrati and Brendan Haley, two filmmakers with a special admiration for the genre of horror. They'll walk us through the queer themes in some of our favorite classic scary movies like "Nightmare on Elm Street 2," what otherness means in cinema, and how queer horror is still evolving today.

Be sure to follow Michael and Brendan! Your host is Levi Chambers, co-founder of Gayety. Follow the show and keep up with the conversation @Pride. Want more great shows from Straw Hut Media? Check out or website at strawhutmedia.com. Your producers are Levi Chambers, Maggie Boles, Ryan Tillotson and Edited by Silvana Alcala Have an interesting LGBTQ+ story to share? We might feature U! Email us at lgbtq@strawhutmedia.com. *This podcast is not affiliated with Pride Media.

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Straw media. People have been terrified by the delights of a horror film since the late eighteen hundreds, during the earliest stages of motion picture film. Since its creation, horror has developed into more than just a genre. It's a space to face our collective fears and explore the unknown. WE'RE DRAWN TO CHARACTERS LIKE DRACULA or Freddy Krueger because they stand out from what is familiar. otherness is a popular theme within horror films, especially for the LGBTQ plus community. Makes a lot of sense because we're, by definition, as a genre of otherness, and who understands otherness better than Queer people? Today we chat with Michael Varati and Brendan Haley, to filmmakers with a special admiration for the genre of horror. It's not a world that I ever thought existed before and was not raised to believe was a community of people, and I've grown to love it. I've grown to really adopt it as my own. They'll walk us through the queer themes in some of our favorite classic scary movies, like nightmare in Elm Street, to what otherness means in cinema and how queer horror is still evolving. Today, I'm Lea by chambers and this is pride hi. I'm Michael Varati. I'm a filmmaker and writer and host and Queer Horror has actually been quite a part of my journey for a number of years now and it's very tight into my identity and my queer identity, and it has been, I think, since the beginning. Michael's obsession with horror began when he would binge watch late night cable and there was a show at the end of the S and earlys called us a up all night and I first started watching USA up all night because of a double feature they did of attack of the killer tomatoes and return of the killer tomatoes, and I was deeply fascinated by these titles and I begged my mom to let me stay up and she did and I fell in love, and I always say that that night was sort of like my baptism in blood, if you will, because it opened my eyes up to the fact that these were a different kind of movie than the movies I was seeing at the multiplex or that my friends were talking about at school. And so then there became this like awareness that there was this other world of movies that felt a little forbidden and I wanted to see them all. And of course that draw to the forbidden also kind of ties into a certain kind of queerness. And so as I went through my life and I started like digging into probably scarier movies than Kailler tomatoes and finding like my interest and desire to create, I also started seeing that parallel because a lot of the people I met along this journey were all so queer and also interested in horror. Hi, I'm Brendon Haley and I and relatively newer to the world...

...of Queer horror. Brendon is an actor, producer and filmmaker known for his work on the daytime emmy nominated series East ciders. But unlike Michael, he wasn't raised on horror. It's the world that I mean. We'll get into it in a little bit, but Michael Rowdy here has been a huge part of introducing me to the this wonderful, Wonderful Queer world over the last couple of years. Michael and Brendon were both drawn to horror for the same reason. For them it's about more than just the thrill you get from being scared. I think probably the most obvious thing that people look towards as a nightmare on ELM street. To it has been touted as the gayest movie of All Times. If you're not familiar with the franchise by West Craven Nightmare on Elm Street, it tells the story of Freddy Krueger, the spirit of a serial killer who wears a gloves with knives for fingers that he uses to kill his victims in their sleep. But what makes it the gayest movie of all time because of these sort of over queer themes that you see where you know the main character, played by Mark Patton, is is struggling with his identity and he's got this thing inside of him that he doesn't necessarily want to let out and of course, through the lens of the fantastic it's it's Freddy, this otherness. But the the allegory of the film reads very gay and a lot of people have picked up on it over the years, mostly because the character does go to a leather bar. There's a lot of like homo erotic themes, etcetera, etc. But what's interesting is while people focus their lens on nightmare too, that kind of neglect the fact that the entirety of the ELM street franchise is sort of Queer because the first movie Nancy really is reaching out to the people around her and they don't listen to her, and so she has to draw on her own strength and what sets her apart, what makes her other, to fight back into survive. Of course we know the Queer things of nightmare to nightmare three is about drawing power from your chosen family, your found community. In this thread continues throughout the franchise, where it's like there's the certain queerness that the characters who face Freddy as this sort of nebulous monstrosity, they themselves are other and it's their otherness that helps them survived, and that in of itself is a queer narrative. And that's a huge example because elm streets one of the biggest franchises in history as far as word goes. Another element of horror that appeals to the LGBTQ plus community is the concept of the final girl. You know, the character that's left after they killed off the popular cheerleader and the Honky Jock. Well, gay men love strong women right, but there's also an otherness to these female characters. They don't quite fit in with everyone else. It's why people, I think, Love Sidney or Nancy so much, because there is something we understand as queer people. And I'm sure there are other movies that we can we can reference, not just the major franchises, but like in the pop cultures I guysed,...

...those are the ones that we see most prevalently. That's the one we see every Halloween and I think it's great that there is that connection. We see it in Deva worship. It's, you know, like the gays have been very out front of the Free Brittany Movement. We we love our divas, we love our strong women, we we love our avatars on film, basically, and that's what the final girl sort of represents in the horror space. I love that you reference Sydney and Nancy and of course you go back to kind of the og of the slasher cycle. Who Jamie Lee Curtis, Lorie Strode, and I think that a big, big missnomer. When talking about otherness and horrors, people automatically assume you're talking about the monster, but the reality is otherness can be embodied in a lot of different ways and and Halloween Lori, played by Jamie Lee Curtis is sort of a girl on the outside. She's looking at these other girls who, while they're her friends, they're popular, they're sexual, they're all these things that she wants to be and that she yearns to be, but she's kind of on the outside and then when the night comes that she has to survive, it's what sets her apart, that allows her to fight back. That's other. Nestlari is as other as Michael is and Halloween, and I think that's why, you know, forty years later, were thrilled that Jamie Lee is still playing that character, because really the movie is as much about her and our attachment to her as queer people, as audience goers, as it is to this faceless man who just kind of keeps showing up on Halloween. There's even a connection. I've had a lot of conversations with recently a about Reagan in the exorcist, and that being it's not something that I actually have thought of until recently, the idea that the possession is sort of, through the lens of religion, a take on queer identity or sexuality or freedom or all the different facets of that conversation which, personally, I think it's a great movie to begin with, but it gives the story a whole other depth and a whole other villain. Essentially. You know, we're always focusing on the devil inside of Reagan rather than maybe the priests are the bad guys. Going back to nightmare on ELM street, Michael has mentioned the otherness of Freddy Krueger and it's not hard to see why. He's not the usual guy you pass on the street. But Michael says, this persona that Robert England has taken on can be considered a form of drag. I think that it's important to know that drag can be many things. I know that because of shows like drag race or Dragula, there are viewers at home who have this sort of idea that drag is gender illusion or it's you know that this just sort of like one box thing, but drag is really about taking on a heightened person persona, and it and and really playing a personality up. Alvira is a drag queen. You know,...

...she's a sist woman who plays another siste woman. But like and her entire character of Elvira comes in spot. It comes from the inspiration of drag queens of that time and the bay area scene, and we've talked about that before. But like one could take that idea and place it on any slasher, like leatherface could be a drag queen or Michael Myers could be a drag queen. Sure. And but I think, especially in the case of Freddie, because there's this complete and total embodiment. When you think about Freddy Krueger, you know intellectually that that's Robert England the actor, but we don't talk about him as Robert England. When we discussed the character, it's always Freddie. It's why in the s Freddy Krueger hosted music videos on MTV. Freddy Krueger stopped by talk shows to talk to David Letterman or it was never Robert England. It was always Freddy and Robert, being a master performer, when he put on that Freddie drag, his whole persona change. She changed the way he talked, he changed the way he walked, he changed his movements. He was very much the Ethel Mermon of or there. Everything's theatrical for how Freddie presents himself. Doesn't Freddy also get paid higher than Robert? Probably, I mean it makes sense right, like, I mean Alvira gets paid higher than Cassandra does, so I think that it would certainly track and that's that's true. I think that it's sort of like if you want Rue Paul to come to an event as rue Paul in a suit, it's going to be a different fee than Rupaul done up with the full face and gown and hair, you know. And ultimately, horror and drag walk hand in hand because they're both art forms of heightened reality and using that heightened reality to critique something or expose something. So Freddy Krueger very much as a drag queen or drag character, a drag monster, if you will, because it's taking that heightened persona and an adopting it to be something more, to be something other, to make a statement. And and Freddy, even more so than any of the other slashers, is really quite draggy, you know. But for that reason, otherness is an extensive term. It describes anything that breaks the stereotypical norms of human society. And if we go back to the early years of horror, like with Dracula and Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, who has constantly challenged normativity, and I think what's really interesting is that they're sort of seems to be this this concept, that this is a new idea, that horror is suddenly queer, but the reality is horror itself has always been queer, but for a period of time the people who were kind of in charge or keeping the gate, or whatever phrase that you want to use, made it seem otherwise. But you mentioned Frankenstein. If you go back to before movies, into sort of the true foundational horror and look at Gothic literature, there was a novelist, Sheridan Lafaneu, who wrote a book called Carmela, which is all about it, a vampire who praise on young maidens, and it was...

...a very popular novel and people kind of were drawn to the SAPIC imagery and maybe he thought he was saying something that was sort of anti queer, but what people liked about it was the queerness and in that actual that book became so popular that Bram stoker was a fan and was like, I also want to write a vampire novel and then Creates Dracula. So you get the most famous vampire, possibly the most famous character in Western literature because of a lesbian vampire first, and you see this kind of like trend that goes throughout Frankenstein, when it was adapted for film, was directed by one of the great gay filmmakers of the Universal Monster Cycle, James Whale, and everything in the bride of Frankenstein has queer themes. You know, on Frankenstein's wedding night he leaves with another man and leaves his his bride alone on their honeymoon and it's sort of like what are you supposed to infer from that? So yeah, these these foundational queer themes have been there all along and then later on we get into like the hammer era of things with like Dr Jackell sister hide all that. You know, Dr Jeckylls sister hid, of course, is a movie that I think a lot of trans horror scholars can speak better too than us as assist gay men, but it is about kind of gender and gender identity and and how when he's Dr Jeckel he's a man and when he's sister hide he's a woman, and there's a problematic version of that, but it's also a form that has been embraced by a lot of transherror fans as well. Too, but the fact that that hammer even dared to make a movie about gender dysphoria in the s is still something that you weren't seeing outside of genre. So yeah, I think that's a really brilliant one to bring up. There's something about monster who that is obviously queer, but people overlook this because the main characters are not human. Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt played lifelong partners in the film interview with a vampire, but it isn't perceived as queer because their blood sucking monsters. Right, first and foremost, all vampires are queer period, full stop, like there's no question, and anybody who hits back against that needs to understand that. Of course they're queer because vampires are not human and for you to to place the confines of Human Sexuality on something that isn't human doesn't make sense. Like they're queer by definition of their attraction anyway, because they aren't part of the humans sort of, you know, diaspora, and I think that what's great about interview with a vampire is for a lot of years, for better or worse, it was kind of considered by Hollywood to be the number one box office earning gay film of All time, even though, as you said, it's not really an outwardly gay movie at all. So, but I would also say, you know, that the most interesting thing about that movie is, despite the Vampires, despite everything, it's really about these two men who are trying to as a daughter as...

...their relationships falling apart. So it is pretty gay. I mean like when we come back, Michael and Brendan Walk us through all the queer horror films you have to add to your watch list. Welcome back. Today we're chatting with Michael Varrati and Brendan Haley to filmmakers and Queer Horror aficianados. So far they've walked us through how films like nightmare on Elm Street and interview with the vampire are not commercialized as Queer, despite their prominent lgbtq plus themes. But what other movies also fit into this category? I would start with anything by Mario Baba, specifically blood and black lace. That is tied with killer tomatoes as my favorite film. I always describe it as the devil where his product, but in the S and Italian fashion and murder and great intrigue. So what's not to appeal to? A young queer person or any queer person. Well, I'm glad that you brought up Mario Baba, because I think something that gets left out of queer conversations a lot, and I'm happy to jump in and throw this out there, is is Italian horrors sort of championing of queer identity long before we see it stateside. Because in the late s and early S S, when Dario Argentos started his kind of cycle of jollo films, bird with the crystal plumage out of nine tails for flies and grave velvet, all of those movies feature queer characters. There's a character that goes to a drag bar while he's investigating a crime, there's a gay inspector and all these characters are presented quite positively in an era where otherwise we weren't seeing that. You know, Alfred Hitchcock was not putting queer people in his movies, or if he was, they were, you know, men in addressed killers that like very transphobic, you know, representation, and to have this like master of Italian horror operating on this level of queer acceptance, even if some of his other politics were messy, is still something that that counts, and you know, I don't know what it was, because Baba was quite good at that too. Well. You mentioned Argento, and I would view Sysperia as a queer narrative, whether that's not widely acknowledging or not. It in much the same way as we talked about vampires being queer entities, witches and that allure to power, that all the word to sexuality, that all war to freedom, is something that is not necessarily viewed as the hero or the protagonist, and both film Genres, I think even more so in the superior remake that came out a few years ago, there's that whole sequence for Dakota Johnson until the swintner seducing each other like just from across a table, just, I think, would you and I have reenacted at many, many dinners. I I think that the great thing about this is is there is sort...

...of a grand tradition of queerness and horror movies. When looking at American films, Michael and Brendon, say, finding ones with queer themes is a lot easier than you think. Something like Jennifer's body, of course, speaks to queer themes. Or if you're a big fan of s werror. I would point you towards Prom night to Hello Mary low. It's a very like sapphic movie. I think that if you really are investigating this, this crossover in genre, it's definitely there and I don't even think you have to look all that hard for it. You know, would you say that that films like that are from like the s right? We're talking about like the craft. Those films were intentionally queer or they just ended up that way with time? I think probably a bit of both. What's really interesting is I got to do a radio interview with Rachel true, who plays Rochelle in the craft, a couple years ago and I've worked with her a few times since and she actually has spoken to this that, because she is really the only person of color in the movie and also one of the only, you know, marginalized community members in the community, she felt like it was her duty to sort of embody. You know that for everybody, that the Queerness, the otherness, and so she says that she had that in mind while she was making the film. And I can't imagine that Fruza Balk who totally knows what she's doing, like she's like one hundred percent delivering this kind of like Grand Gun Yall camp performance. I would not be surprised if there was some consideration of this becoming an embraced queer film, but I think that the film's themes lend itself to that being embraced, to you know that we are the Weirdos. Mr That's that's a rallying cry. So I would say so, whether intentionally or not, but it feels intentional. Yeah, and I do feel like that's a film in particular where, through the passage of time, the audience has attached itself more in a queer light to that movie. Now, did that continue into like the early thousand with the like films like that? I think it's called Covenant or the Covenant, but I mean that when I watch that I'm like this is very gay, but it really was not package that way or sold that way. Sure. So, the Covenant was made by Renny Harlan, who I think a lot of people would know as the director of die hard, to someone who decidedly does not make very gay films. Right, although Renny Harland did direct nightmare in ELM street, for which I consider to be quite queer because of all the reasons I mentioned earlier, but the covenant kind of seems to be in this grand tradition of the these movies...

...that were made by this gay filmmaker, David Dakota, who really hit like a big stride during the blockbuster era where blockbuster needed to get a lot of movies on shelves and they would buy a lot of these indie horror films, and David Dakota made these kind of like extremely homo erotic movies about like the new boy at school and there's like a group of like sexy boy warlocks who like want to bring him into their circle and then like there's always like some sort of seance where they're and their underwear and his underwear white because he's innocent, and they're underwear is black because you know, they're they're bad boys, and he made a ton of these and gay people were like, Oh, these are gay, and yet there was always like some sort of way around the marketing that they didn't have to call them that. And I loved it because he sort of did exploitation cinema in the way that a lot of these men during the drive in era did, like these these boobs movies, like they knew what they were doing. He was like, all right, I'm taking the mail gays and putting it on boys and let's see them try and stop me. And it's funny about that, as he made a ton of those the Brotherhood, Voodoo Academy. If you you were running movies during that time, you could have seen all of them. And then so when the covenant came out, it was like, oh, it's like Hollywood was like, we should try and make an expense at Dave Dakota movie. And it's strange because it is. Those boys are really sexy. But, like you said, there's a weirdness to it because it's both gay and not, and I think it's because the filmmaker was not in on the joke of what they were trying to do honestly. So they're like, okay, everyone, getting your underwear and be very like buff, like be buff and mean your from a rose, your frappros is. No, it's totally not gay exactly. I was. I was, I think the first time we saw Sebastian stand right of Sebastian stand and Chase Crawford. Oh my God, that's right. From what we've heard so far about queer themes and horror films. It's all about reading between the lines. But Queer cinema is growing all that slowly to the point where there are prominent lgbtq plus characters in these stories. Again, not a lot, but they're there. So why is it we still have so few movies with Authentic Queer Representation? It does go back to the gatekeepers. It goes to WHO's controlling the output. It's going to who approves movies, who thinks the money is going to be made and where, and and wet market, and we've seen this happen across a lot of different demographics. Why are there still, you know, less female filmmakers per capita in Hollywood? Then you know, we still don't have an equal amount of women making movies. We still don't have an equal amount of people of color making movies, we still don't have an equal amount of queer people making movies. Because they still view these kind of films as a risk, which is kind of not kind of it is crazy, you know, because if you if you tell stories for people, the people of those stories are for will show up to them. But from those characters that we see, the way movies portray...

...lgbtq plus people is not great. Look at Buffalo Bill from silence of the lands. He's a queer coded serial killer who's obsessed with dressing like his victims by literally taking the skin off of their bodies. It makes for a scary character, but it puts queer identities under a bad light and if the queer character isn't the villain, they're usually just there as monster bait. Michael calls this the barrier Gaze trope. We're like a gay character is introduced only to die, or the crazy cross dressing killer like, you know, Norman Bates or something. It was not great representation and I think that luckily, because there are people who are fighting for visibility and the conversation is shifting and we're seeing more out filmmakers and queer filmmakers and horror making movies like knife plus heart or rift and you know, these movies that that champion Queer causes. The CO conversation is changing, but I also think that we have to not stop talking about those old movies to because that's the only way we can learn. And you know, I think there is like this new veau idea that like, well, this was problematic so we just strike it from the record, and I'm like, no, we have to keep talking about it. Like, yes, sleepaway camp is transphobic in many ways, but I also know trans people who really like that movie because they have embraced the problem. Matic fave because of the conversation or, like I you know, you bring up nightmare to the reality is is that if, even though we as gay men love to celebrate that movie, what people rarely mention is the whole arc of the movie is sort of defeating his gayness. It isn't a positive outcome in the film. We like all the camp parts that make it gay, but no one ever wants to talk about the last ten minutes where it's basically like the love of a good women will drive freddy out of you and you don't get to be queer anymore. That's a problem and that's a very that's a repeating theme, especially back in the S and S, but still today we see that exactly so. But it's like we need to talk about it so we can make not just horror but all stories better and more inclusive and smarter. And that doesn't mean we have to strike what's come from the record or that we can enjoy what's come before. I mean there are movies that I grew up loving that came during that weird cult exploitation midnight movie era where, yeah, they're not all PC, and I think we can look at it through the lens of time and be like, okay, I still enjoy this, but I also know that we've grown, because that's what art should be. It should always be about growth and forward momentum, as cancel culture and sort of shifting that narrative over to putting these characters and these people in the protagonist seed or the the seat of the hero. One example, as Netflix...

...has recent horror trilogy Fear Street, based on Arlstein's novels. The film's feature a Lesbian Romance at the forefront. They're good movies, but at the end of the day there aren't a lot of prominent queer characters in Hollywood and the ones we do have aren't well executed. By putting them in that place where turnt we're essentially we're just taking these characters, not always, but sometimes, taking these characters and putting the same narrative as a straight character that we've had for years and years and years, and that's their journey. Not Always, but like it depends on the movie, I think, and you know, I think the thing too about tropes is is we live in a kind of a postmodern Meta society with all of our media. Our media has become very referential. So I think that even if tropes are employed these days, we know we know them, which makes a difference. I'm not saying they're all good and I'm not saying they're all bad and I'm not saying there's some that we couldn't do without or that you know that they're beating a dead horse, but I think there's a lot more savvy to it now, or at least there should be. Really is the correct answer. I mean, that's definitely always the hope is to tell more stories that focus on the queer perspective or different facets of that. Brendon and Michael Both bring authentic representation to the queer horror genre through their projects. For Brendan it's through his two radio shows, it listens from the radio and the boulet brothers Dragula. They focus on an alternate timeline in the S, and the soon to come third and fourth season of it listens the s. They focus on an alternate timeline where queer people are just out. They are part of they are part of society, and that's not necessarily there's no difference there. Some stories do differ. I think Michael actually wrote a really fantastic Halloween episode for it listens last year that is all about the queer perspective and these two boys in Texas who are watching a movie and they are still in the closet and they're trying to survive the Zombie Apocalypse and and the eariar full sort of does a similar thing, but I always have an affinity for Michael's episode because of that storyline in particular. As for Michael, he's working as a writer, director and producer and says all his work explores the intersection of identity and horror, and I've been very lucky that I've been able to do it all of my short films it's in some capacity explore nuances and themes within our community that I don't feel like I'm seeing in horror and luckily I've found producers and become a producer myself to make these...

...things happen and, as I mentioned earlier, I work with a lot of drag performers and that's been a lot of my trajectory. Michael also collaborates with peaches Christ, a filmmaker, actor and underground drag performer. They cohost a show called MIDNIGHTMASS, which explores a different cult film each episode. And of course, when we do these things together they're inherently queer because it's who we are. And getting to be a writer and director on a show like Dragula, which celebrates queer performers in a horror space, these are all like, you know, I get to see this all the time and I get to work in it all the time and I feel very lucky. But I am also a working writer in the industry and where I work for a lot of TV networks and studios, and I see also how much farther we have to go, how there's a fight that always has to be had, there is always a conversation that needs to be pushed. So it's like it is true that we, as independent creators, have to keep forcing those conversations and keep creating the things that we want to see, because by making the things that bring the audience, that's what's going to get the you know, quote unquote mainstream to realize that there's value in these stories and to start making it themselves. Michael says he's usually bringing queer ideas to brainstorming meetings because even if it doesn't end up in the final project, at least it sparked a conversation and sometimes you can get those things through and that's it. It's just write the stories you want to see, make the art you want to see. And I do come from a background where it's like, if you don't have five hundred dollars to make a movie, make it for five, because someone still needs to see it. You know, that's that's where I think it begins and we need that art in the world to make it. I don't know if you're equally passionate, but if you go through your IMDB, a lot of your credits are writing Christmas movies for networks like Hallmart right. How how did that? How do you go from like I need day horror blood got holidays? You know, it's interesting. Is I think that people would be surprised to discover is there's not as much of a divide in those as you would think, because I got my first Christmas movie because of the Indie horror films that I wrote. When I first moved to Los Angeles, I had made a number of indie horror films on the East Coast with a variety of really cool regional directors and I moved here because I wanted to keep working and there was a producer who regularly makes these lifetime Christmas movies and he was a fan of some of the work that I did it and they had this lineup...

...of films where they had sold like five movies to the network and they only actually had four, and so they needed a movie made quickly and he was like, can you make, can you write a Christmas movie for us at a certain budget level and at a certain timestamp, and knowing that that's kind of how indie horror is made, and I was like this is cool. I've never thought that I would do this, but sure why not? Challenge accepted, and that first movie was a movie called a Christmas reunions during Denise Richards and it's all about a Christmas cookie contest and it did well and so then the next Christmas they asked me to write another and another one. Michael discovered he wasn't the only horror movie buff writing Christmas stories. A lot of filmmakers and writers who do horror also do Christmas. There's this like weird, kind of like community of us who kind of do both and we've talked about it and we've also I think there is a curiosity to it and we've all been interviewed for a couple different publications about this, this exact crossover, and I think what we've all landed on is the reason it works is they're all cult movies in their own way. You know, they audiences are equally devoted and very ravenous for these films and much like in scream, where there are rules of horror movies, there are rules of Christmas movies that the Christmas audience, like you know, waits for, and so we kind of view them as as two sides of the same coin. And I'm sure hallmark wouldn't be thrilled to know that I'm saying that their movies are the same as the Texas chainsaw massacre. Of course they're not. But like that's this, you know, you you approach a movie with a certain kind of knowledge of what the audience wants and what the expectations are, and there's a little something calls about that, and so I think that's why we get it and they're fun. They are. If you're not ready for Christmas music yet and you're holding on to the Halloween season, you can check out Brendon's new album everie ear fuls. Every ear fuls is a halloween ambience and original music album very much inspired by s Halloween sounds albums, and it's something I've wanted to do for a long time and it's finally, finally coming out and Michael is a wonderful skeleton MC on it. That's too kind. I have to say that I have been able to listen to Brendon's eerie ear fels album and it is amazing. It is one of these very cool nostalgia throwbacks. I think you did amazing work and I think people who love Halloween and that kind of warm and cozy Halloween feeling are going to really like it quite a bit, and so I'm excited for people to hear it. Thank you. As for me, as I mentioned yes the new season of the buy brothers Dragula will be premiering on October nineteenth on shutter I directed all of the intros and all the death scenes, or most of the death scenes, and so people who are familiar with...

...previous seasons can come back to see our brand of mayhem. I also am in a Docu series that's debuting on shutter called behind the monsters, and every week they talked about a different popular culture monster and sort of how they influence the Zite guist. So it's kind of sort of what we did a little bit in this conversation. Pride is a production of Straw hut media. If you like the show, leave us at rating and to review on Apple, podcast, spotify or wherever you listen to podcast. Then follow us on Instagram, facebook and twitter at pride and tune in weekly for new episodes. Be Sure to share this episode with your friends and subscribe for more stories from Amazing Queer people. If you'd like to connect with me, you can follow me everywhere at Le by chambers. Pride is produced by me LEA by chambers, Maggie Bowls, Ryan Tillottson Caitlin mcdaniel and Brandon Marlow, edited by Silvana I'll Calla, and Daniel Ferrara. Sound mixing by Silvana, I'll call it. I think once you, once you go back and put on like a Queer Lens and you look through, you're like, oh, this is so, so queer.

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