Duality With Jordan Doww
PRIDE
PRIDE

Episode · 3 years ago

Duality With Jordan Doww

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Jordan Doww has seen the light and dark of Hollywood, social media, and moving across the country to follow your dreams. There’s cancel culture and abuses of power, but then there’s finding the strength to rise above it all and love yourself.

Be sure to follow Jordan on IG and on his youtube channel! Your host is Levi Chambers, co-founder of Gayety. Follow the show and keep up with the conversation @Pride. Want more great shows from Straw Hut Media? Check out or website at strawhutmedia.com. Your producers are Levi Chambers, Maggie Boles, Ryan Tillotson and Edited by Sebastian Alcala Have an interesting LGBTQ+ story to share? We might feature U! Email us at lgbtq@strawhutmedia.com. *This podcast is not affiliated with Pride Media. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Straw media. As lovers and consumers of culture, it's easy to pay attention only to the glamorous parts of Hollywood, but there is a downside to all that concentrated fame and power. In the entertainment industry, that power comes with money. In social media, it comes with numbers. Over the last five years, Jordan Dow has experienced the nebulous duality of beauty and pain in Hollywood and on social media. Jordan is an actor, comedian, singer and so much more, and he's seen a lot in the city, from the dreams to the nightmares. I'M LEA by Chambers, and this is pride. Be ready for this. Let's do it all right. So can you introduce yourself? Hi, everybody, I am Jordan Dow. I like to think I'm a man of many talents. I'm an actor, writer, influencer who influences positive things, a producer. I did comedy for a bit, I sing, I do theater, try to do it all, I mean you have to in the city. GROWING UP IN DETROIT, Michigan, Jordan always knew he wanted to be an actor. He spent his time on the stage doing theater and Improv and was actually the youngest person to perform Improv at his local comedy club. After that he made his way to the second city, in Chicago, the Improv theater and school that launched the careers of people like Amy Polar, Tina Fey, Bill Murray and Stephen Colbert. Then, during his first year at Michigan State University, he came across an internship at Disneyland and I was like, Oh my God, this is my way to La. He was accepted into the program and started working as a photopass photographer at the Disneyland resort, assuming he would return to school to finish his degree after the four month program. His parents were supportive and that's what I thought I was going to do too. I mean I had three more years left, three and a half. But all of my friends in my class we're like, dude, you're not coming back, like we know, and I'm like no, no, I have to, like I have to finish school, like what, who are you? And Yeah, I mean that one girl that said it hated today, but she was right. She was right. I never I literally, I literally called my mom. It was like a month long of trying to convince him, if I for me to stay. But yeah, I remember I got a manager and agent, a job, an apartment, all behind her back and then I pitched it to her and she was like no, no, no, because, I mean, you know, she was worried and she was like school, school, school, and I think school is very important. It just for me at the time I was in la meeting all these people, I saw a future for myself and so I was like, I can't waste my time, you know, I have to I have this urgency, in this energy right now, like I need to channel it while I'm here and if it doesn't work out, I go back home, I go back to school, you know, and I do plan on going back to school eventually. I really I miss learning. I mean school is not for everybody, but I do miss learning and like it would be nice to have a degree in something. Jordan took that internship because La is the city where stars are born, and he built up some serious momentum in just a few months, even though he was working long hours in Anaheim with no car. In those four months I landed an agent,...

...a manager and I started rocking like a big following on various platforms like Youtube, vine, instagram, you know, the whole shore bank and yeah, from there, from their kind of just all started to like fall into place. I had a really, really excited and good team who were willing to find ways to help me grow and with help of them, I made this really beautiful coming up video which I think really kind of launched me into this world of advocacy. So I then kind of, you know, with the popularity, I guess, at this video, I then kind of became a voice for the Lgbtq plus community, and that what I'm so honored to have been able to do. That I did not expect that to happen. Since Jordan first set foot in California five years ago, he has continuued to accomplish a lot. He's done a lot of acting, both in theater and on film. I toured my own stand up show, which was wild. I like literally don't even know how that happened. We did it on Broadway, which is crazy. That show, Holly Weird, even earned him a nomination for a teen choice award in the same category as Ellen Degeneres and James Cordon. The Teen Choice Awards were on my twenty one birthday. I also got best dressed that day. It was just it was like boom, boom, boom, and I was like, what is happening? Is this real? Now, in addition to acting, he sometimes hosts red carpets and interviews celebrities and so, since La is so film focused, especially lately, I've been really dying to get back on a stage and maybe do comedy again or do musical theater, whatever. Some some way. I need to get on the stage and I need audience. I need live feedback. Another passion that Jordan is focusing on is ad because he both for the Lgbtq community and for mental health. I guess I'm trying to find ways to kind of help in that sense and I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I just want to do everything. That's my problem is I literally get so many ideas and so many dreams and I'm like, okay, how do I do them all? I gotta like, I gotta like hone in on one for now. Jordan has worked hard to carve out a career for himself in entertainment, but five years ago he was fresh on the scene. He was young and naive, very very naive, very stupidly naive. You know, I had to learn how the city works on my own. I was I was nineteen when I moved here, and there's a lot of darkness here. I mean it's a place where dreams can come true if you hustle, but that's also a place where you can totally lose yourself, and, unfortunately, like too many people do. But I mean in a in a weird way. There's like beauty behind that because, like, if you can find the way back to yourself, like then you have all of life's lessons to share, and I think that's kind of where I'm at. You got offered porn really quickly in a starbucks. I think coffee bean or some sort of but I was like getting salted and literally in plain sight, and was also asked to do porn. And that's not even like the worst things that have happened to me. Sexual assault is too prevalent in this city. Off The record, Jordan opened up about experiences that change his perspective on the industry. He described those moments as soul crushing. Seeing the dark side of a place you've always idolized is jarring for anybody, but it was especially hard on Jordan, who grew up struggling with anxiety. I had panic attacks all the time, but I grew up just I grew up just anxious and worried and you know, growing up in high...

...school, I definitely like grew out of it, I would say, and moving to La was just such a high. I was like this is so exciting, like I'm doing what I'm supposed to do, and I would say like to two years ago, but more specifically this past year, I was like struck with anxiety again, and in it this way. It happened in a very physical way, and so it was something I've never felt before. This or that. But what's crazy is a lot of people are saying that they're feeling the same way lately. So I'm like, is this like a generational thing? Is this like an environmental thing? What's going on? Is it social media, like something happened in the past ten years that are making people feel this way? There's like anxiety and depression rates are so high today. It's like quadrupled in the past fifteen, twenty years, which is so sad. But like what's the cause? So I'm really I love to talk about my struggles with mental health and, you know, because a being honest and truthful and open about it gives it less power and be you know, vulnerability is the first step to healing. I mean, I think there's beauty behind sharing your story, because there's you know, the minute you share your story that you have no idea who that could help and Save, you know, and I really saw a shift of when I started to open up about mine, how many people were feeling the same exact way. And so I'm just very with you know, with my social media as I'm very open and very honest about what I'm dealing with and what I'm going through. And, you know, unfortunately, like I'm going through physical health issues to and that also is they played apart. Check, you know, be healthy. If you're if your bodies my healthy, your mental state's not going to be healthy either. You know what I mean that your mind is your body. So I think it's very important to keep both intact. And Yeah, that's what I'm that's why I'm saying like moving forward. I want I just like I'm I was put on his Earth to help people, and I know that, but like to what capacity? You know, when we come back more about the dark side of Hollywood and the darker side of social media, it is impossible to ignore the massive wave that the me to movement started in two thousand and seventeen. We all know now of the long standing sexual assaults carried out by powerful people, Harvey Weinstein, the head of Amazon Studios, Roy Price, the Olympic doctor Larry Nasar, NBC's Matt Lower, Louis C K. The perpetrators were mostly powerful men and they usually prayed on younger women, but some of the less discussed and uncomfortable instances were with powerful men praying on young boys. Much like Harvey Weinstein's atrocious behavior was an open secret. The same was true for Kevin Spacey, since actor Anthony Rapp called him out for making sexual advances towards him when he was just fourteen years old. Dozens of allegations have surfaced. Similarly, filmmaker Brian Singer, who made the xmen films and Bohemian Rhapsody, have been accused of misconduct with young men as far back as one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven. No one was held accountable until recently, and even now it's not clear if any real consequences will take shape. I will go into too much Jesu but I will just say in in the...

...five years that I've been in La, and I mean this is just growing up, but I really do think it has everything to do with La and the industry and also the gay community. Intention is everything and not everybody has the best intentions. So unfortunately they had to learn that the hard way with a few people that I've I've let into my circle and yeah, I was I was proven that not everybody is good. With La. It's like amplified because there's more at stake, right, you have fame and money, right, a lot at stake. So I feel like, especially people who have power, they can exploit it a lot. Well, like if you're in Iowa and you're trying to work around a corporate lotter, they don't have as much pull as someone at NBC universal or Right, a huge studio with a lot of power that can make you right. Some there. There's just like some people in this industry have very malicious intent and it's sad. I I'm I pride myself and someone that like would that doesn't even think that way, but unfortunately, yes, a lot of people with power have terrible intent how did I react? Like when you realize that moment? What was that moment? It was to get. It was so crushing. It was. It was so crushing to, you know, be again, I'm not going to go into detail, but like in certain aspects I was getting taken advantage of and it's just unfortunate that people even go to that depth and people, you know, with fame and success comes responsibility, and when people don't use that in a good, correct way, a lot of people suffer from it. Although Hollywood's history of predatory conduct has stained the entertainment industry, that behavior of some exacts isn't the only thing endangering the mental health of public figures and performers. Cancel culture is a form of a boycott in which the called out person is also thrust out of social or professional circles. Those individuals are said to be canceled. Sometimes it goes too far and the damage can be irreversible. Oh, I said chills. Something that's going on today that I that I fear and some and it's a huge reason why I even stopped, you know, making as much content as I used to, and it honestly even made me fear fame a little bit. Is Cancel Culture. You know, do I think it? It helps and work sometimes, of course, of course. Of course, like black lives matter, we didn't know that was an issue until people started calling it out and it made it made this huge, you know, social try, social movement. You know, we wouldn't have been able to know that without cancel culture, thankfully. But at the on the other end of the spectrum, you're also we're also attacking people for a mistake they made fifteen years ago. That's not we're like. We're people are not allowing people to change and and apologize and grow from something. Also, life fifteen twenty years ago was very different, very different, even just the way people talk, even the way people you know. I mean we even got Disney plus with this disclaimers before every movie. Now. Because things were just so different back then doesn't mean it was right, ever. It can be difficult to navigate the lines between what was once okay and what was never okay. Do we have to view past problematic art and creators through a Lens that acknowledges the problem but retains the value, or do we toss anything that doesn't withstand our two thousand and nineteen standards? It isn't for the faint of...

Heart. And so often in a realm where you only have two hundred and forty characters Max to express a thought, we tend to lose a lot of nuance. Gray areas just don't lend themselves to concision, and mob mentality is deeply ingrained in our minds. In two thousand and eight a steady conducted at Leeds University found that it takes a confident minority of just five percent to influence a crowds direction. So if we're likely to physically follow strangers just because they look like they know what they're doing, it's not a far leap to understand why we follow the loudest voices on the Internet. And we all know it's a lot easier to be confident from behind a screen. Cancel culture goes so dark and so in depth, like I started to feel. I started to feel so negatively about cancel culture. With the whole. Do you guys remember the Jake Paul Situation, or Logan Paul with one of the palls? With the whole, he posted a video of him going into this forest and yes, terrible. Why'd you even do that? Why'd you even post a video? I have my you know, we all have our reasons to completely hate this act. That he did. But the thing that shook me to the to my core, was children on twitter, twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old, wishing him to like die and to kill himself. That is, that is where. That is so horrible and I often feel, you know, when people make this mistake and people react in such, you know, this mob mentality way, like their words are almost more hurtful and and worse than the crime itself. And people don't, people don't think, think like that. Like I'm just always like what, like, what? How can you even say that to somebody that you don't even know? It just makes me sick. It just makes me sick because a lot of it is like children too, and you know whatever, and it's just it's just made cancel. Culture just made it very scary to be yourself today. I mean I think we're all walking on eggshells. I mean we are. I even me. I I'm afraid to say the wrong thing. And when someone's afraid to say the wrong thing, they're not actually learning anymore. It stops learning at anything. It's very important to educate yourself, but the minute you cancel someone, you're not allowing them to do is. You're not allowing them to learn from this. Yeah, you completely canceled their whole career, and that's what's unfortunate. People's lives are changing overnight from this because of cancel culture. I think social media is great, and then it gives people a voice. Yep, but it gives them a voice and a really loud one, and you can say whatever you want. And it's not like when you tweet something, you could tweet the most terrific thing. Twitter isn't like, are you sure you want to send this? After clicks and it's like by done, right, so it yeah, you're right. This is like an unprecedented time in history when you can, you could be no one and tomorrow you're famous. Yeah, off of something you said or something, a video you posted, a bully, you beat the shit out roll like. I also think, though, that like social media kind of just like change the way. I was watching the like documentary on e or something. It was about social media and social media stars, and it was actually call it was actually about fame addiction. They they related addiction. No, they related fame to the same as like a drug addiction, like when you get that little dose, it's like you just crave more and more and more and more, and social media gave that to everybody. You know, the minute you get a few more followers, of the minute you hit you know, my Mile Marker, you...

...hit that certain amount of legs, it's your body craves to get that validation again and it wants more and more and more and more. So people are like acting crazy online just for attention. And you know I did the same thing. But it's just interesting to look back and be like what I was posting? Shit I didn't like, I didn't who. That's not me. You know what I mean? Is it ever us? But yeah, social media, what is it? Where is it going? This city, this industry, and just I think us as a generation now it is very easy to lose yourself, and especially with how social media works. I'm social media gave me a job and a roof over my head. I'm very thankful for it, but social media also is what made me suffer. We've talked a lot about the unpleasant parts of Lah still those early days as a fresh faced transplant are magical and even if the city loses some of its shine over time, it's still a place where you can find yourself and pursue your passions. Everything was just so cool, and it still is. It's just my perspective changed and that's just what happens. I mean not only is that life, but it's also, yeah, Lah can be really, really dark and unfortunately, like it really shook me to my core because, you know, I'm from the Midwest. I I'm from a very normal scenery, you know, and normal people and more traditional, which obviously for some people that doesn't work. It didn't work for me, but I just come from normal, what will, what's perceived as normal, and since I grew up and that that was my normal, and then I moved Lah and everything is just so different, I mean the people, the culture. I mean I came out when I moved here because I felt like I was, you know, launched into this world where I was like I felt like I was seen. But then, you know, the longer I've lived here and this and that and you know, the more things that have happened to me here, it's just, yeah, you can lose yourself so easily here and I really do think I did it and you know, it's very long process to find the way back to yourself. But I'm also very, very thankful for it because it gave me so much insight onto who I am, onto how I perceive other people and onto how I perceive the industry. And it's yeah, it's really easy to get caught up in all the bs and it's all about just sticking true to yourself. There's so many people out here trying to be someone they're not, and I'll be honest, I was. I was that guy and you know, I'm very thankful that I'm able to see that from afar and be like no, find your roots and and, you know, keep blossoming into this person you know you are and will continue to be in like growing whatever. When we come back, young love coming out, panic attacks and the freaking team choice awards. This is a quote from call me by your name that says, did I want to be like him? Did I want to be him, or did I want to just have him? And it's so interesting because when I was like in elementary school, I was like, you know, there were I was friends with guys and I weally felt like I...

...wanted to be like them, and so I always thought that. I was like, I want to be like them, and then like Middle School Ish era, it was. It then changed to did I want to? I want to be him. Like I idolized people to the point where, like I idolized straight men or something, to the point where I was like no, I want to be them. I want to be them. So I would like mimic, you know, such a lie. I mimicked like the way I talked, the way I dressed, the way I walked, even and even just it was just so toxic. I wasn't myself and then kind of finding the way to myself and what I liked and this or that. You know, High School, Early College years. It then was or do I want to have him? So it was. It wasn't until high school that I really looked at myself. I loved my alone time, but that's just how I process things. I have to process things alone and this or that. And you know, when I met this one guy in high school, we just we simply just became really good friends and then more stemmed from that. And I I even remember the first time we had even like kissed or something. We were mortified. We didn't talk to each other for like a good week or two. He took it more harsh than me, but it was like such a emotional dramatic thing. We were like we felt discussed it, unfortunately, and I don't know. And then I guess I just I guess this. The more time that we spent together, the more we were feeling okay with it. But also we were such a secret and I think a part of me tried to hide the fact that we were a thing and I was trying to hide that side of myself. And so I was living two lives. I was completely living two lives in high school and it's just so unfortunate that I even had to do that. But it was also fun and it was my exploratory phase and you know that. I moved to college and I kind of put that on the back burner. But then when I moved to La at nineteen, I was surrounded by love and support. I was surrounded by people like me and I was surrounded by, you know, this amazing community and really taught me to love myself and to accept that and that people are just like me and they are living amazing, happy lives and that it's just not something to be ashamed of. And so, although I wasn't out to my parents at the time, when I made my coming out video, I I was like panicking one night watching all of these coming out videos gone wrong on youtube and it's scared the living shit out of me and I was like, I'm never going to do it, I'm just I'm not going to do it. And so I for some reason, the people that I was closest to it was the hardest to tell, whereas like a stranger on the street, it was so easy for me to say. So I really clung on to acquaintances at the during this time, I really kind of like stepped away from close friends, and so then I you know, I texted my manager one night and I was like I need to make this video. I don't know in what capacity or what way, but it needs to be about labels and it needs to express that we're just we're all we're all human. Like why is it this huge thing that I don't know? I wanted to normalize it. I wanted to normalize coming out, I wanted to normalize the yeah, just normalize it, and because it felt like it...

...felt like it was just this huge thing that, you know, either people accept or don't. It's like, no, hold on, we're literally all the same, we're a literally all human, and so the way I did my videos. I wanted everyone to present their label and, you know, have everyone's in the mix and just kind of, you know, let's celebrate our labels. Of course makes us who we are, but like, let's also not let our labels discriminate against each other. We're all human with the same needs and desires, and that's how we should live. And so, yeah, that video was just my most proud moment of my career and now, like it's two really cool things, because of life. It's not about hiding. Life is about living and it's not easy to hide. Nor should you ever hide, because the day that you're comfortable with yourself is that they you start living. Jordan published that video called coming out, I'm gay, I'm human, in two thousand and fifteen. It now has more than four hundred fiftyzero views on youtube, and that's a pretty bold way to come out, especially since he wasn't even out to his family yet. So when we were making the video, we were like on set for like ten hours. It was something like it was a long day. I had a mate and I had an amazing crew. I had an amazing team that were so excited to do this. I don't even know how. I'm just very thankful that all these people came together and I got really cool people in it, like Franky Grande Andrew Russ it, like other influencers and that I looked up to, and I remember it was halfway through the day. It was it was time for me to go in the booth and record my voice over that you hear in the video, and I wrote a script because I like I need I'm OCD and I need things to be my way and perfect and I need to know what it's going to be in the end. And so you know, I'm in the booth, I'm I'm reading my script and my amazing friend Raymond Braun, who was working for Seventeen magazine at the time, he stopped by and he came with me. He was super supportive and it was if it wasn't for him, this video wouldn't have been the way it is, they way it is. So he came with me into this recording booth and he said, Jordan, let's ditch the script. I want to ask you some questions. So he started asking me some questions and I was saying things out loud that I had never said before ever to anybody and you know, thankfully I felt comfortable to but once I left the sound booth, I then had a full on panic attack and I almost shut down this whole entire video shoot. I like had to walk outside. Raymond followed me, he talked me out of it, but it was too it was too real, it was too much. I had not even told a single person, so I wasn't ready. And then kind of just seeing the seeing what I made and seeing the kind of people I got together and seeing that I this was such a big thing. I related to tell myself like this is for you, but also this is also for so many other people. This is this needs to happen, this is important. So it did it and I didn't call my parents until the day of before posted it. And unfortunately, micause my parents don't like to tell me these things, apparently my mom was in the hospital for some she has, like she has all these issues. I won't get into detail, but she goes to the hospital a lot, so I get it. But she was in the hospital this time and my parents just magically didn't tell me, and I call them like to tell to break the...

...news, and my mom is like so high on drugs, like pain meds and whatever. But I was like it's going to it's releasing in two hours. I have to say it, and it took me that whole two hours to even say it. How did your family react to it? You know, they were just beyond supportive. They didn't react. It just they didn't react in a way that was anything different than saying anything else. It was very it was very comfortable and ever since then they've just proven themselves to be just so amazing and so supportive and they're literally the best. I'm so thankful for them. They're are the best. And, yeah, my whole family is to yeah, that coming out it was hard. It was really hard, but I'm very thankful I did it and look at us now. I had to know. Does he still keep in touch with his friend from high school, the one who helped him start the journey towards self acceptance? Yeah, we keep in touch. that a no, it's just I'm very I don't know that. I don't know if this is healthy, but if I've ever loved you, or you know what is love, but if I've ever felt close to that or you know the Yada, Yada, Yada, it is very hard for me to get rid of you in my life because we shared so much and it's just hard for me to leave a person that knows so much about me because there's you know, I don't share myself to everybody. So thankfully I've never had, well, okay, never is a strong word, but thankfully most of the people I've ever maybe felt love too. I always left it on good terms and, thankfully can still catch up and update each other and stuff like that, and I think that's really healthy and that's really strong and mature thing to do. It only not everybody can do it. I I need that because, like I said, you know everything about me. And Yeah, and I'm never regretful of anybody I've ever met. Ever, you know, things might not work out, things might get nasty or whatever, but I never regret anybody I met, because people come into your lives to teach you something, whether it's about people or about them or about you, and it's mostly you. People come to teach you something about you. I think the people you kind of surround yourself with or and or date is a reflection of what's going on with you. So you know, you attract what you also are. We talked about the good and the bad of Hollywood and social media. There's also the same duality and taking the leap to leave home and pursue your dreams. There was a time when I lost sight of what I was meant to do and what I even like to do. I didn't really know what I liked to do and I just lost my I lost my I got out, I got off the rails, the track, and I was like so lost, so anxious what I went broke and I didn't know who I was. And Yeah, I would say that was like a year ago. Yeah, I was like too, I was like being I was very unhealthy at the time to like just parting a lot. And Yeah, it's very lost. I don't know. But the way out of the way out, the way out of it is like I really like tapped into what do I like to do, and so that's when I did. I did hair spray. I did a hair like a little local theater, your hair sprain. I was Lincoln. That really helped me be...

...like, Bitch, you love to perform, you love to entertain, you loved you love to entertain. That show, I think a paid. I didn't. It was just for fun. It was just for me and I that's the thing. It was like I just needed to it was a passion thing and I think we need to find more ways to implement that into our daily routine. Like Passion. Find your passion for things. If you hate your job, you're going to hate yourself. Like you got to find a way to have that balance, like whether it's going to the gym or learning a hobby or music or this or that. If you're not putting those in your, you know, daily or even weekly schedules, you're gonna you're going to lose track of what you were meant to do to Jordan hasn't lost track of what he wants to do, and we were able to pry out his super secret plans for his brand new, super secret project. I'm okay, there's just a lot, like, I'm work, I'm working on I don't know, I'm it's a secret, a secret. Okay, fine, y'all, taste. I'm you had a lot of secrets in this podcast. Gordon. I'm working on creating a bunch more content, but very specific to my desires, and so, like I, I've been trying to tap into the musical theater world, I'm trying to write a musical. Don't know how that's going to be, but there's going to be some kind of ellen like musical theater, live elements and some some form of writing. So whether that's a musical, but but, I don't know. But that's what I am working on. He also recently released a video with a beautiful rendition of waving through a window from the Tony Award winning musical dear Evan Hanson, which is my favorite freaking show of all time. If you have a chance to see it, go see it. It's amazing. It's all about mental health. There's literally so many stories in one story, like there's so many there's so many elements that y'all are going to relate to. So go see it. It's a beautiful and it's well done and I honest see if it wasn't for that musical like I wouldn't have been so. I've always loved theater, but like that musical change the game for me. So I posted a cover of it and it inspired me to want to do more of those a and be to get going on my own thing. Where can everyone follow you? They can follow me on like pretty much everything with the name Jordan Doo to W's. What's your real name? Very Polish Jordan would ZINCA. But okay, growing up everyone was always like, how do you say your last name? Like teachers would say Jordan Dowodowski. And literally, if you look at my last name and then I you, you hear it. It's so easy to not only spell but to read. When you're fun of forest and there's nobody around, do you ever really crash or even make a sound? When you're fun in a forest and there's nobody around, you ever really crush or even make a sound? Did I even make sounded? I even make a sound? It's like I never made a sound. Will I ever make a sound? Thanks for listening. Pride is a production of Straw hout media. If you like to show leave us a rating and a review on Apple, podcasts, spotify or wherever you're tuning in from shares with your friends. Subscribe and follow us on Instagram, facebook and twitter at pride. You can follow me at leave by chambers. Pride is produced by me, Maggie Bulls and Ryan Tillotson, edited by Sebastian. I'll call it. Thank you. Thank you.

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